The UmBlog

The New Testament epistle of 1st Timothy has a frequently neglected expectation of church leaders, 1 Timothy 3: 1-7 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap. I said "frequently neglected" but it may only be to my limited perspective. What should the church do if ...

*************************** Update January 2016. Dave Schmelzer has addressed some objections like mine in his essay here . *************************** This week I listened to most of a sermon from the Boston Vineyard on homosexuality from their 2011 series on hard questions . The sermon's title is Homosexuality and Churchgoing and was given by the lead pastor, Dave Schmelzer . I didn't hear the last fourth of the sermon, so he might have said what I am going to say here, but his ideas got me thinking. Basically, he appeals to a mathematical analogy for his ecclesiology, centered sets vs. closed sets.  This is nothing new, but for those to whom it is new, here is my quick breakdown. A closed set would be a circle defined by it's edge. A centered set would be defined by, you guessed it, the center. A church with a closed set ecclesiology would have some well defined behaviors expected of members, e.g. no smoking, drinking or dancing. A centered set church welcomes all wh...

In response to Ben's letter to Jesus . Dude You are whining. Stop it. Grow up. Man up. You made your bed, now you are laying in it. Sorry it sucks. You shouldn't be disappointed that your utopian view of the church didn't pan out. It's not the view in the Bible anyway. See James 3:1  Image via Wikipedia Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. ESV Is James being prescriptive or descriptive? I think the greater judgment is to be expected regardless. You betrayed the trust of dozens of people who gave you their money as a gift unto God. You aren't a chief sheep. You were their under-shepherd and took advantage of one of the sheep. You aren't safe to the flock bro. You turned wolfy. Your hunger was more important than your flock.  Jesus spoke about this in Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. ESV The ESV s...

A few months ago I tried to wrestle with the definition of character, especially in the context of the Jesus follower and church discipline. What I came up with over two posts ( one and two ) Dustin Hoffman said in one sentence to me last night through his character, Louis Dega , in the lame 1973 movie, Papillon . He said, " Temptation resisted is the true test of character ." The movie says it's based on a true story, but the publisher of Papillon admitted it was originally submitted as a novel. Another "autobiographical" best seller which suffered from truthiness . Only in a false autobiography does the hero get to live on a tropical beach in a primitive village with topless, pearl diving maidens for a few months while on the lam. That was the big tip off, the part of the story that could never be veriified, but had salacious entertainment. Image via Wikipedia

I was contacted by a reader of my church discipline  series who was disciplined by a G12 church. I had not heard of G12 churches before. The wiki article was helpful but the entry at the Apologetics Index was very helpful, especially the comments . It seems humans have a hard time not sliding from discipleship into control. Perhaps, God has blessed those who get kicked out of a G12 church.

Near the end of his letter to Titus Paul says, Titus 3:10 Reject a divisive person after one or two warnings. 3:11 You know that such a person is twisted by sin and is conscious of it himself. I think this is an example of not applying Jesus' process as outlined in Matthew 18. Perhaps the very divisive person gets one warning, but lesser dividers get two. It probably depends on the scope of their influence. Nevertheless, everyone gets warned, at most twice. The issues of division in Crete, where Titus led, seemed to be over genealogies, quarrels about the law, and need of circumcision in the Christian's life. Paul wants to keep the Gospel the main thing. How does Paul boil down the good news for Titus? Titus 3 3:1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work. 3:2 They must not slander anyone, but be peaceable, gentle, showing complete courtesy to all people. 3:3 For we too were once foolish, disobedient, misled,...

Paul writes to the church in Thessalonica in his second letter to them, 2 Thess. 3:6-15 3:6 But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition they received from us. 3:7 For you know yourselves how you must imitate us, because we did not behave without discipline among you, 3:8 and we did not eat anyone’s food without paying. Instead, in toil and drudgery we worked night and day in order not to burden any of you. 3:9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give ourselves as an example for you to imitate. 3:10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this command: “If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” 3:11 For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. 3:12 3:13 But you, brothers and sisters, do not grow weary in doing what is...

I think Michael Spencer is ending his series on church discipline, and he ends on a high note. He gives a very positive approach to church discipline. The "getting kicked out" part is like the emergency room doctors pulling out the high voltage paddles. There is much soul medicine that could be applied beforehand. He states , I would like readers to consider what church discipline looks like when it is the church’s compassionate ministry to those who are suffering, rather than primarily a punitive action toward those who are sinning... In other words, where there is genuine sinful behavior that is affecting a spouse, child, family or fellow church member, the church should act like the church, with gentle and consistent reminders and interventions pointing to the onset of a process that can bring the entire church into a “sin intervention” process... Those familiar with the Andy Griffith Show will know why I always think of Sheriff Andy Taylor in this kind of discussion. Sher...

He has good thoughts on Matthew 18 ... So what we have here is a very grace and forgiveness filled chapter. It is not a chapter filled with the duty of elders to root out errors and go looking for reasons to accuse. It is not about seeking the purity of the church but about recalling that we all are lost sheep, little children with limited understanding and bankrupt sinners treated with amazing grace. He contends that the process is optional. I think this is in agreement with the concept of love covering a multitude of sins. Now, things get interesting. If the brother refuses to acknowledge the sin, a second option appears that does involve the church community. I do not believe it is compulsory. I believe it is up to the individual to take the following two steps, but IF both are part of a church that has openly established a community standard of relationships based on this principle, then it should be no surprise when a second conversation occurs, this time involving two other broth...

I think there are a couple more ways to cover as reasons to get disfellowshipped, but I wanted to pause and share something I read this morning with a good friend over breakfast. This is also prompted by another friend who grew up in a church which practiced kicking people out an awful lot. The New Testament really has many similar passages like this. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12 Finally then, brothers and sisters, we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received instruction from us about how you must live and please God (as you are in fact living) that you do so more and more. For you know what commands we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is God’s will: that you become holy, that you keep away from sexual immorality, that each of you know how to possess his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God. In this matter no one should violate the rights of his brother or take advantage of him, because the Lord is the a...

We've arrived at the last in the series but first in Paul's list from 1 Corinthians 5:11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy , or worships idols , or is abusive , or a drunkard , or a swindler . Don’t even eat with such people. NLT Instead of making it long with the negatives, I'll keep it short by stating it positively. Fornication is any act of sex outside of a marriage to one person of the opposite gender. Here is the Greek on this . 1. illicit sexual intercourse 1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18 3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, 2. metaph. the worship of idols 1. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols For much more information I recommend the entry on sexual immorality...

The #2 way to get kicked out of church is greed . 1 Corinthians 5:11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater , or a reviler , or a drunkard , or a swindler —not even to eat with such a one. NASB All the Americans can now leave the room. Actually, wealth and greed do not necessarily go hand in hand. Greed is only an aspect of covetousness. I covered this topic as well in the 10 Commandment series. It's the 10th commandment . "Do not covet your neighbor's house; do not covet your neighbor's wife, his male or female slave, his ox, his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor." Exodus 20:17 (The Complete Jewish Bible) I wrote previously , In short, if God wanted you to have it you would get it. As a parent, I say similar things. Our children do not have many popular toys, at least at the same time as they are popular. When the popularity cools and the price drops, then t...

This is really part B of the idolatry topic from yesterday. A return to idolatry happened en masse a few times in the history of the early church when the Roman emperors tried to crush Christianity. They are called the lapsi . The regular designation in the third century for Christians who relapsed into heathenism, especially for those who during the persecutions displayed weakness in the face of torture, and denied the Faith by sacrificing to the heathen gods or by any other acts. Many of the lapsi, indeed the majority of the very numerous cases in the great persecutions after the middle of the third century, certainly did not return to paganism out of conviction: they simply had not the courage to confess the Faith steadfastly when threatened with temporal losses and severe punishments (banishments, forced labor ... death), and their sole desire was to preserve themselves from persecution by an external act of apostasy, and to save their property, freedom, and life. When things got...

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler , drunkard , or robber . Do not even eat with such a one. (NRSV) We arrive at number 3 in the top 6 list of ways to get kicked out of church. As the links in the verse indicate, I have posted on the last three. I'm working my way up the list. I figure sexual immorality may take several posts, since humans have found so many ways to be sexually immoral and the Bible covers many of those. As I noted earlier , I think all of these sins, except drunkenness, correspond to one of the 10 commandments. Idolatry is the number 2 commandment. For the Corinthians, who came out of the Greek and Roman mythology and idol worship, this demarcation is very important to them. When I wrote about idolatry earlier, I spent many posts on its importance today. I will quote from those posts in 2007. The commandment itself is at Ex...

The verse under inspection is 1 Corinthians 5:11, But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian 1 who is sexually immoral, or greedy, or an idolater, or verbally abusive, 2 or a drunkard, or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. It can be a hard thing to be dis-fellowshipped or shunned over a behavior you love more than your Christian family. Previously, I discussed drunkenness and swindling , today I'll look at verbal abuse. King James' Bible uses the word, railer, which doesn't help the modern speaker much. Nave's Topical Bible suggests a couple similar injunctions against this type of talk, 1 Corinthians 6:10, 1 Timothy 6:4; 1 Peter 3:9; 2 Peter 2:11; Jude 1:9. I found the translation note on this word by the NET editors very helpful. They write , Or “revilers”; BDAG 602 s.v. λοίδορος defines the term as “reviler, abusive person.” Because the term “abusive” without further qualification has become associated...

We are working from 1 Corinthians 5:11. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy, or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. (NET) Today's focus is on swindlers . The Greek word is harpax . Paul uses the word three times in this very letter and Jesus uses it twice. Here are the verses . Jesus Mat 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves. Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people: extortionists , unrighteous people, adulterers – or even like this tax collector. Paul 1Co 5:10 In no way did I mean the immoral people of this world, or the greedy and swindlers and idolaters, since you would then have to go out of the world. 1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls...

This post would fall under the title excursus of the excursus from yesterday regarding church discipline and Matthew 18:15-22. I think Jesus's process is brilliant, but of course it is, he's God. Here is why... Suppose a brother in the church rebukes me for farting in church. I rebuff his rebuke and tell him that I'm not sinning. So the guy decides to pursue this issue with me and rounds up a couple other brothers, but no sisters, to address my issues. As they listen to him confront me they start laughing. Their guffaws establish that this isn't a sin issue. Then the matter is sealed as someone rips one while laughing. With two or three witnesses the matter gets established. The accuser should abide by the agreement of the witnesses, even if he doesn't like it, in the same way he expected the offender, me, to agree. He should not, afterwards, round up three women who may be more sympathetic to his appeal. Nor should he stab me with a knife like this guy did to hi...

This is an excursus on the topic of "How to get kicked out of church." In my research on the topic of church discipline I have encountered many appeals to Jesus's words in Matthew 18:15-22. 18:15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. 18:16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established . 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like a Gentile or a tax collector. 18:18 “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven. 18:19 Again, I tell you the truth, if two of you on earth agree about whatever you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you. 18:20 For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am ther...