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Showing posts with the label hell

conditional unconditional love??

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Three of the things I'm really grateful for from my experience in the Vineyard churches was the emphasis on the unconditional love of God, the grace of God, and the loving, fatherly heart of God. These principles undid a lot of the spiritual damage I had acquired in my upbringing. However, one of the things I had to hold with cognitive dissonance was the condition placed on God's unconditional love. Here are a few analogies I was told to explain this. It's a free gift, you just need to unwrap it. It's a blank check, you just need to sign it. Will you consent to be loved? I turned to Calvinism for a while to break this log jam in my brain. Today's Calvinists will say something along the lines of, God knew I would unwrap/sign/consent from eternity past so I really had no choice it was all God's work. But Calvinism creates so many more problems than it solves and I eventually dropped it. One of the pushbacks from non-Calvinists is the analogy of divine ...

God is love - a Lenten series 16 God's love extends to a thousand generations

Exodus 20: 5b I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. versus Ezekiel 18:20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. According to Moses, God punishes children for the sins of their parents. According to Ezekiel, God does no such thing. (I wrote more extensively on this topic in 2014 here. ) Even Jesus said to not forbid children to come to him. He did not care what misdeeds their parents had committed. One thing Ezekiel and Jesus did not disagree with Moses about is God's love for thousands of generations. A little context is needed. Previou...

God is love - a Lenten series 15 Love blesses its enemies

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Luke 6:32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. whites only lunch counter sit-in , Jackson, Miss. 1963 I'm sure many of the people in this white mob, incensed at a black woman sitting with her friends at a whites-only lunch counter, were church-going folk. But religious folk are often caricatured for missing the point of their faith, which according to Jesus is about loving God and loving their neig...

Jesus the refurbished prototype

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St. Paul likes to contrast Jesus with Adam, the first human in the Hebrew creation story. He writes in his magnum opus , the letter to the Roman church, Romans 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come . Adam was a prototype, but his defect was a lack of trust in God. Paul's argument is this defect affects all of humanity, until the new prototype, God in human skin, appears and rectifies it. 18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people . 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. It is verses like 18 that I take literally which give me confidence that all humanity will be reconciled to God and not just a few. But ...

Is God Love or not?

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One of my conservative Christian friends on facebook shared this comic by Christian comic artist Adam4d. I used to take this line of reason, but now I disagree with it because the "bottom line" for Adam's theology is not what I find in Jesus. For Adam's comic, the basic gospel message is about us. I think instead the basic good news from Jesus is God is a loving entity that seeks everyone who is lost to restore them to full relationship, like a widow and lost coin, a shepherd and a lost sheep, or a father and lost son. As Jesus' brother James writes, "Mercy triumphs over judgment." As his beloved disciple John writes, "God is love." I join many great theologians in the church's history who start from this ground floor instead of an anthropolgical statement.  Catholic monk and scholar Meister Eckhart (1200's) writes " How long will grown men and women in this world keep drawing in their coloring books an image of God that m...

You are a royal priesthood

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1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. In the Jewish scriptures the Levite tribe, which Moses belonged to, were designated a landless priesthood by blood to serve the rest of the Israelite tribes. In the same way, the church serves the same purpose today as the priesthood for the world. One expectation on this priesthood is to praise God with our stories, what was done for us by Him, from darkness to light, from disunity to unity, from condemnation to mercy. It's more than talk though it's a walk: a walk in love, a walk in unity, a walk of mercy. This has some important obligations for the Christian church. Peter continues, 11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to...

Advent for the abundant life

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Why did God incarnate himself as the baby Jesus? Jesus says in John's gospel, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." John 10:10 Jesus continues in this passage, "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd." v. 16 In Luke's gospel, after a tax collector's life changing encounter with Jesus, he says, referring to himself, "For the Son of Man came to seek out and to save the lost.” Luke 19:10 The abundant life only begins in this one. It continues in the next. Jesus will accomplish his task, either in this life or the next one. What then are we to do who have already begun this abundant life? Tell the good news, not "turn or burn." 1 Peter 2:1-10  But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, in order that you may procla...

Advent reading - Jeremiah 31

I listened for the second time in my life to a church service of lessons and carols with a trained choir and a serious pipe organ. There are seven lessons, all readings from the Bible to prepare us for the Advent. One of the readings was a mere 4 verses from Jeremiah 31:31-34. But when I read it today, in its totality, I could not believe they only picked these few verses. It's in Jeremiah 31 where Matthew references a fulfillment of Herod's slaughter of the innocents. But the chapter is mostly about God's unilateral restoration of his people despite their failings. 31  The days are surely coming, says the  Lord , when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.  32  It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, [ g ]  says the  Lord .  33  But this is the covenant that I ...

book report: Heaven, Hell and Purgatory by Jerry Walls (2015)

This book surprised me. Jerry Walls has condensed his three separate books on hell, purgatory, and heaven into this single 240 page volume . I am not saying this is a reader's digest version, just cut and pasted excerpts, it stands on its own, but he has made his thinking on these three topics available for those with commitment issues. What is surprising is his traditional, evangelical understanding of heaven and hell. However, he favors and interacts regularly with C.S. Lewis's thoughts on hell and purgatory. I was unaware that Lewis considered purgatory a theological possibility for non-Catholics. However, I have read Lewis' Great Divorce, a fictional treatment of hell, in which he asserts the door is locked from the inside. It's inhabitants merely need to walk out into heaven. In Lewis' book, the narrator asks the guide what is hell about if people do choose to leave it for the heavenly city. The guide replies that for those who choose to leave, it is purgat...

for those who don't want heaven

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “ Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. —C. S. Lewis I'm reading Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory: Rethinking the Things That Matter Most by Jerry L. Walls. He takes a conseravtive evangelical position on hell. He uses this quote from C.S. Lewis to begin his 3rd chapter, titled "If God is love, why is there a hell?" He appeals to God's love results in human free will resulting in a free choice by some to reject God. I disagree with the last point. I do agree God is love. I do agree that we have free will. But I do not think we have enough clarity of vision to freely decide for Jesus. I think that absolute clarity of vision can only come in the afterlife. I think most adults, those capable of free will not hinde...

Can these verses in the bible be taken literally?

This string of verses come from Brad Jersak's blog. They come in the midst of a great story he tells about a dream he had. And then  all flesh  shall see the salvation of God. (Lk. 3:6)  This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that through him  all  might believe. (John 1:7)  Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the  world  (John 1:29)  For God so loved the  world  that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.   For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the  world  through Him might be saved.  (John 3:17)  The Father loves the Son, and has given  all things  into His hand. (John 3:35)  We no longer believe because of what you said, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this really is the Savior of the  world . (John 4:42)...

please don't try to save me

I've been on a 45 year long faith journey. I haven't reached a destination. Most of that path has been on fundamentalist/biblicist path. But there was so much of it I could no longer accept. Lately, in my version of NaNoWriMo , I've been exploring on this blog, my online public, personal journal, the concept of universalism. I could no longer believe that God is love and would send people to hell for eternity because they never heard of him, nor that he would extinguish the souls of his children for the same reason. I cannot imagine anyone suffering eternally for temporal offenses they did not know they were even committing. My faith is also not in my Bible but in the God who is love who sent his son to save the world that he loves. I do not think God the Father is pissed all the time and Jesus calmed him down by letting his dad beat the shit out of him for our sins. I also do not believe my gay friends have an agenda to destroy my family or anyone else's. Nor do ...

about this curious explanation of condemnation in John's gospel

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In the scene of John when Nicodemus, the religious leader, came to meet with Jesus at night, in secret, is written, John 3 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world , and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Verse 16 is on most of those football signs behind the end zone. It's a great verse about God who is love. Verse 17 is so hopeful, that he might save the world. From what though? Condemnation, in verse 18. So what does this condemnation look like? Hell? Nope. Rather, exposure and truth. Je...

a curious verse in my morning's reading

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1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does. From today's Daily Office reading . When was the gospel preached to the dead? In their afterlife, right? Why? That they might live in the spirit as God does. What about the bad people who died? The question is, how merciful is God? James says, "Mercy triumphs over judgment." (James 2:13) In the very beginning of the Bible, Adam and Eve are warned by God that if they eat the forbidden fruit they will die that day. They ate and did not die. Why? I think because mercy triumphs over judgment. I keep saying justice is not ignored by God even though he is merciful. For example, consider this story from today's daily office , as summarized from a longer obituary article in the Washington Post recently. Evangeline Moore, whose parents were killed in the first U.S. civi...

what if Jesus' story about hell is true?

Jesus tells an interesting story about hell in Luke's gospel, chapter 16, just a few verses after the parable of the unjust steward. (See my earlier wrestling with that passage here .) The story goes like this. An unnamed rich guy ignores the beggar at his gate who hopes for the rich man's crumbs. Then, as happens to all humans, they both die. In the afterlife, the roles are reversed. Lazarus the beggar receives comfort while the rich guy is in agony. He asks for permission for Lazarus to merely dip his finger in cool water and drop it on his tongue. Abraham denies this request saying, "Nah bro, there is a chasm between us." Next the rich guy asks Abraham to send a warning via a resurrected Lazarus to his brothers so they will not make the same mistake. Again, Abraham is like, "Nah, bro. It's not gonna happen. They wouldn't listen to him regardless." The end. If you are a poor person exploited by the one percent, someone who feels taken advantage...

will you make it to heaven?

The Protestant denominations have not reached consensus on the afterlife of all humans, nor even of all believers. Some are universalists who believe all will go to heaven. Some are minimalists who think that only their tribe will make it. Some think "once saved, always saved." Some think "once baptized, always saved." Some think that unless salvation is worked out one who was saved could lose it. The ways to read the Bible literally and puzzle it together in a systematic theology are so myriad, protestantism has also fractured in a myriad of tribes. There are verses that indicate all these options. I think my wild and crazy perspective on hell let's all of these verses be true. I haven't contrasted my view yet with the Roman Catholic understanding of purgatory, but I admit, there are similarities, but there are differences. I think everyone is waylaid in a purgatory/hell that acts like an afterlife version of a truth and reconciliation commission . Cer...

justice against suicidal murderers

When a killer sprays a crowd with bullets from an assault rifle then kills himself before he can be apprehended, where is the justice? When a killer walks into a crowded venue then sets off the belts of explosives under his coat, where is the justice? An eternity in hell, tortured by flames, is cruel vengeance, not justice. A face to face confrontation, killer with killed, one by one, each story fully known, all mental incapacities healed, all delusions cleared away, all prevarications inhibited, when a full acknowledgement of guilt has to be made, is what I believe justice looks like in the afterlife. Suicide is not an escape for those killers, just a hastening to justice.

who doesn't make it into heaven?

St. Paul makes a few lists. In his first letter to the Corinthian church, 1 Cor. 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God ? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. He writes to the churches in Galatia, Gal. 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God . He writes to the church in Ephesus, Eph. 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath a...