Fight the good fight of the faith
a commenter on an earlier post regarding Indian Christians rioting in opposition to the showing of the Da Vinci Code writes,
i had many thoughts on this on my bike ride in this morning...
the easy things first...a secular country would have no interest or business in legislating against religious conversion. a secular government wouldn't have police who stand aside and watch fellow Hindus beat Christians to near death. it only takes a few to do the violence while many to agree with and tacitly, if not actively, support the violence. if you read this blog regularly you'll see frequent posts to violence agasint christians in India from several news sources.
the hard thing...military metaphors that Christians use. they come from our scriptures. the big clarification is that the war is always portrayed as spiritual.
Romans 7:23 But there is another law at work within me that is at war with my mind. This law wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me.
2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
Ephesians 6:12 For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
1 Timothy 1:18 Timothy, my child, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight for the faith; take hold of eternal life, to which you were called and have made a good confession before many witnesses.
2 Timothy 2:4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
This sampling hopefully provides clarification regarding what the church's founders mean when they use military metaphors. We struggle against our own sin. We struggle against the oppression of others. We struggle for justice and righteousness. We do it by exposing lies, proclaiming truth, offering our own lives on behalf of others, through prayer, etc. the crusades of Rome were not what was pictured by Jesus.
are we Christians arrogant in seeking to change people's minds? by that reasoning, no one should advertise anything or any product that has imporved their lives. but this is also a fundamental difference between Hinduism and Christianity. the Hindu mindset that accomodates multiple gods always has room for more, but the Christians monotheistic mind set can't. the God who reveals himself in the Bible has some tough things to say to the pantheist...
Isaiah 46: 5 “ To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal
And compare Me, that we should be alike?
6 They lavish gold out of the bag,
And weigh silver on the scales;
They hire a goldsmith, and he makes it a god;
They prostrate themselves, yes, they worship.
7 They bear it on the shoulder, they carry it
And set it in its place, and it stands;
From its place it shall not move.
Though one cries out to it, yet it cannot answer
Nor save him out of his trouble.
and Isaiah 44: 6"This is what the LORD, Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty, says: I am the First and the Last; there is no other God. 7Who else can tell you what is going to happen in the days ahead? Let them tell you if they can and thus prove their power. Let them do as I have done since ancient times. 8Do not tremble; do not be afraid. Have I not proclaimed from ages past what my purposes are for you? You are my witnesses--is there any other God? No! There is no other Rock--not one!"
9How foolish are those who manufacture idols to be their gods. These highly valued objects are really worthless. They themselves are witnesses that this is so, for their idols neither see nor know. No wonder those who worship them are put to shame. 10Who but a fool would make his own god--an idol that cannot help him one bit! 11All who worship idols will stand before the LORD in shame, along with all these craftsmen--mere humans--who claim they can make a god. Together they will stand in terror and shame.
12The blacksmith stands at his forge to make a sharp tool, pounding and shaping it with all his might. His work makes him hungry and thirsty, weak and faint. 13Then the wood-carver measures and marks out a block of wood, takes the tool, and carves the figure of a man. Now he has a wonderful idol that cannot even move from where it is placed! 14He cuts down cedars; he selects the cypress and the oak; he plants the cedar in the forest to be nourished by the rain. 15And after his care, he uses part of the wood to make a fire to warm himself and bake his bread. Then--yes, it's true--he takes the rest of it and makes himself a god for people to worship! He makes an idol and bows down and praises it! 16He burns part of the tree to roast his meat and to keep himself warm. 17Then he takes what's left and makes his god: a carved idol! He falls down in front of it, worshiping and praying to it. "Rescue me!" he says. "You are my god!"
18Such stupidity and ignorance! Their eyes are closed, and they cannot see. Their minds are shut, and they cannot think. 19The person who made the idol never stops to reflect, "Why, it's just a block of wood! I burned half of it for heat and used it to bake my bread and roast my meat. How can the rest of it be a god? Should I bow down to worship a chunk of wood?" 20The poor, deluded fool feeds on ashes. He is trusting something that can give him no help at all. Yet he cannot bring himself to ask, "Is this thing, this idol that I'm holding in my hand, a lie?"
its our God who proclaims himself God alone. call him arrogant and superior and you'll be half right.
Are you waging a type of war??
India is a secular country.
I am not taking any sides but I condemn all fanatical christians who are waging this "War" [shows arrogance and superiority of one religion's philosophy] . I also condemn some isolated fanatical Hindus who may have involved in some kind of violence.
i had many thoughts on this on my bike ride in this morning...
the easy things first...a secular country would have no interest or business in legislating against religious conversion. a secular government wouldn't have police who stand aside and watch fellow Hindus beat Christians to near death. it only takes a few to do the violence while many to agree with and tacitly, if not actively, support the violence. if you read this blog regularly you'll see frequent posts to violence agasint christians in India from several news sources.
the hard thing...military metaphors that Christians use. they come from our scriptures. the big clarification is that the war is always portrayed as spiritual.
Romans 7:23 But there is another law at work within me that is at war with my mind. This law wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me.
2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
Ephesians 6:12 For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.
1 Timothy 1:18 Timothy, my child, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight for the faith; take hold of eternal life, to which you were called and have made a good confession before many witnesses.
2 Timothy 2:4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
This sampling hopefully provides clarification regarding what the church's founders mean when they use military metaphors. We struggle against our own sin. We struggle against the oppression of others. We struggle for justice and righteousness. We do it by exposing lies, proclaiming truth, offering our own lives on behalf of others, through prayer, etc. the crusades of Rome were not what was pictured by Jesus.
are we Christians arrogant in seeking to change people's minds? by that reasoning, no one should advertise anything or any product that has imporved their lives. but this is also a fundamental difference between Hinduism and Christianity. the Hindu mindset that accomodates multiple gods always has room for more, but the Christians monotheistic mind set can't. the God who reveals himself in the Bible has some tough things to say to the pantheist...
Isaiah 46: 5 “ To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal
And compare Me, that we should be alike?
6 They lavish gold out of the bag,
And weigh silver on the scales;
They hire a goldsmith, and he makes it a god;
They prostrate themselves, yes, they worship.
7 They bear it on the shoulder, they carry it
And set it in its place, and it stands;
From its place it shall not move.
Though one cries out to it, yet it cannot answer
Nor save him out of his trouble.
and Isaiah 44: 6"This is what the LORD, Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty, says: I am the First and the Last; there is no other God. 7Who else can tell you what is going to happen in the days ahead? Let them tell you if they can and thus prove their power. Let them do as I have done since ancient times. 8Do not tremble; do not be afraid. Have I not proclaimed from ages past what my purposes are for you? You are my witnesses--is there any other God? No! There is no other Rock--not one!"
9How foolish are those who manufacture idols to be their gods. These highly valued objects are really worthless. They themselves are witnesses that this is so, for their idols neither see nor know. No wonder those who worship them are put to shame. 10Who but a fool would make his own god--an idol that cannot help him one bit! 11All who worship idols will stand before the LORD in shame, along with all these craftsmen--mere humans--who claim they can make a god. Together they will stand in terror and shame.
12The blacksmith stands at his forge to make a sharp tool, pounding and shaping it with all his might. His work makes him hungry and thirsty, weak and faint. 13Then the wood-carver measures and marks out a block of wood, takes the tool, and carves the figure of a man. Now he has a wonderful idol that cannot even move from where it is placed! 14He cuts down cedars; he selects the cypress and the oak; he plants the cedar in the forest to be nourished by the rain. 15And after his care, he uses part of the wood to make a fire to warm himself and bake his bread. Then--yes, it's true--he takes the rest of it and makes himself a god for people to worship! He makes an idol and bows down and praises it! 16He burns part of the tree to roast his meat and to keep himself warm. 17Then he takes what's left and makes his god: a carved idol! He falls down in front of it, worshiping and praying to it. "Rescue me!" he says. "You are my god!"
18Such stupidity and ignorance! Their eyes are closed, and they cannot see. Their minds are shut, and they cannot think. 19The person who made the idol never stops to reflect, "Why, it's just a block of wood! I burned half of it for heat and used it to bake my bread and roast my meat. How can the rest of it be a god? Should I bow down to worship a chunk of wood?" 20The poor, deluded fool feeds on ashes. He is trusting something that can give him no help at all. Yet he cannot bring himself to ask, "Is this thing, this idol that I'm holding in my hand, a lie?"
its our God who proclaims himself God alone. call him arrogant and superior and you'll be half right.
Comments
Please correct your facts before commenting. India has NO law against religious freedom and practice.The only LEGITIMATE law is against forcible conversions or by conversion by lure[which is what is done by missionaries in the name of Christ -I know it is hard to digest but this is the REAL fact].You have no right to comment on laws of a democratic secular country when it is approved by the law makers and people.So just keep away from commenting on this aspect.It is THE LAW OF LAND OF DEMOCRATIC SECULAR INDIA.And it is NOT going to change just because of influx of missionaries disguising in the name of service to poor .Outside people HAVE NO business in commenting that the LAW IS "UNLAW".Period.
"..a secular government wouldn't have police who stand aside.." I live there and I know the truth.Most of the reports[leaving isolated cases] are fabricated and propoganded.The only objective is to siphon money from America/Europe and deceive in the name of religion.
In most of the cases,Converions are done against THE LAW OF THE LAND.Hence, all your observations are void in the context of the law.Period.
or here
http://www.gfa.org/gfa/persecution
if you search google news with the terms india christian conversion you will turn up plenty of reports like this...
"In Orissa, the anti-conversion law is applicable only to conversions to Christianity, but when it comes to converting to Hinduism, police go to ceremonies and are mute spectators, becoming accomplices of Hindu extremism," the bishop of Sambalpur added.
"Recently, at one of their ceremonies in remote rural Orissa, insults were yelled against Christian missionaries in front of the police, who did not lift a finger," added Bishop Kerketta, 69. "Tragically, the fundamentalists target tribals who originally are not even Hindu.
"These tribals are extremely poor and depend entirely on the majority community for their livelihood, so they are an easy target for pressure and intimidation from those who want to force them to participate in these re-conversions."
John Dayal, president of the All India Catholic Union, reacted sharply to the event.
"First of all, they are 'conversions' and not 're-conversions' to Hinduism," he said. "Secondly, much as I despise the anti-conversion law, it should be applied in these cases, and not only to Christian priests. It is evident that these regional laws of the BJP represent a threat not only to India's secular traditions but also to its federal structure."
Dayal ended with an appeal: "I invite the central government to take steps to curb the manner in which the BJP is ruling states like Orissa, Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh or else they will face serious fractures in national democracy."
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=91758
if you search for india anti-conversion you get stories from India with a different perspective from you...
The rally also demanded adequate protection for religious minority communities in the state, especially Christians, who have faced more than 50 violent attacks blamed on right-wing Hindu groups since January. Jabalpur alone has had 15 such incidents.
CPI leader Mahendra Bajpai, who led the night procession, asked people to step forward to defeat what he described as the hidden agenda of the pro-Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP, Indian people's party) to target minorities and their institutions. The BJP rules Madhya Pradesh.
Speaking with UCA News after the rally, Bajpai, 78, said the attacks on Christians and their institutions have upset his party. The party was further provoked when state Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan announced May 20 his government's plans to amend the anti-conversion law.
The amendment aims to make the existing law more stringent to check religious conversions, according to Sudhir Agrawal, who heads Dharam Sena (religious army), a Hindu extremist group that spearheads a movement against Christian missioners and conversions. A few weeks ago, the group burned effigies of Pope Benedict XVI at several locations in the state to protest the pope's remarks alluding to anti-conversion laws in some Indian states.
Agrawal said the government would introduce the amendment in the state legislative assembly when it meets for its monsoon session. The monsoon session is scheduled to begin on July 17.
Although the government has not divulged the amendment's details, Christian leaders such as Reverend Cyril Cornelius, a Methodist pastor in Jabalpur, fear the worst. Under the present law an accused in a conversion case can be released on bail from the local police station. But BJP president Rajnath Singh has asked chief ministers of BJP-ruled states to toughen anti-conversion laws. The Rajasthan government has done just that with a recently passed law that provides for the accused to be jailed without bail. However, Rajasthan's governor did not sign the law and sent it back to the state assembly.
Several political leaders told UCA News that the anti-conversion law violates the freedom of choice the Indian constitution guarantees. Bajpai asserts that conversion is a "choice of one's free will," and that nobody can make another person change religion using force or allurement.
Samajwadi (socialist) Party leader Ashok Kumar Malik, who joined the rally, says faith "is a personal matter and no government has the right to interfere with it." Govind Yadav, who heads Janata Dal (people's front) in the state, calls conversion a change of heart that no law can stop.
Yadav and Congress leader Sajid Ali warn that Hindu extremists would use the new law to target Christians. According to Yadav, the law would only generate mistrust and hatred between Christians and Hindus.
Meanwhile, neighboring BJP-ruled Chhattisgarh also plans to amend its anti-conversion law. The state, which was part of Madhya Pradesh until 2000, adopted all the parent state's laws. A draft bill reportedly proposes to punish violators of the law with a fine of up to 100,000 rupees (US$2,230) and a maximum jail term of five years.
Christian leaders say the law can be interpreted to include the Church's charitable services as fraudulent ways to force conversion.
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=122&id=4015
so its only 10 Christians a month get beat up in one state of secular India. i guess they are extremely threatening to a Hindu kingdom that has existed for 4000 years. and oppressing minorities is the Hindu way, the Dalit caste for example, so why not treat Christians the same?
Christians buying conversions? see my earlier post on that one. if it were that easy, just buy the convert back. see my post called evangelizing on commission
http://umbl0g.blogspot.com/2006/05/evangelizing-on-commission.html
If something is done wrong,there is Court and law.So get your facts right and dont google propoganda websites. I can also google websites and then it would be an endless discussion.